A lady recently got in touch with me asking for advice due to her becoming increasingly anxious about an up and coming course she would have to attend through work – one where she would have to meet and speak in front of a room full of strangers. She commented on how much my reply helped her so I thought I would share it here with her permission.
Her initial email is below.
So, as I mentioned to you earlier, Paul, I feel really worried and flat today. I am worried about some up and coming courses I have to go on for work — ones where I have to interact with others and do a presentation and some role play.
I just hate being trapped in a room full of strangers for the day. I even worry about where I will sit at these things in case I get asked to go first. It’s in these situations that my anxiety really heightens and I find myself worrying for days before the actual event.
I knew when I signed up to all this stuff that I’d get this panic/worry, but I can’t keep making excuses not to go anymore. I can’t just hide and not progress, as these courses are vital if I want to move on in my career. I just hate the thought of making a fool of myself or getting tongue-tied. Why am I such a wimp?
I used to wriggle out of these things when in a previous office job and would mainly phone in sick for big meetings. I absolutely cannot do that anymore and don’t want to, but somehow the worry still comes and is hard to shake off as I know I won’t perform at my best on the day due to my nerves. My boss and I are both attending it, so I feel even more pressure to be on top form.
I know afterwards that I will analyse it all and go over everything I could have done better, and beat myself up about it. Part of this is because I lose concentration due to worrying, and so I don’t listen properly. Maybe that’s a way to focus – listen, take notes and ignore the critical voices about myself?
I’ve been out of these situations for quite a while now and feel very anxious at the thought of attending again. I guess the more I do it, the more comfortable I will be with it, but that thought is not helping me at the minute.
Thanks for listening and I would appreciate any advice you could give me.
This was my reply
Firstly, trust me, pretty much everyone has the same concerns as you when meeting or talking in front of a room full of new people. Some of the most outwardly confident people can have the same doubts and nerves; it is just that pretty much no one voices these concerns. Yes, some people are genuinely confident and comfortable in these situations, but these are few and far between; most are similar to yourself and don’t particularly look forward to it.
I am friends with a woman who for years, has regularly spoken in front of people and she still finds it daunting. A lot of her nerves are built around people not being interested in what she has to say, which mainly comes from the doubts she has about herself. She told me that even though these doubts and nerves surface, she never lets them stop her.
So the main reason people have these anxious thoughts and feelings is down to the core beliefs they have about themselves. It is not the situation that causes the anxiety; it is down to how comfortable in yourself you feel. Anyone who is secure in who they are will not care how people perceive them and so will not feel the same anxieties.
Unfortunately, most people do have some negative core beliefs about who they are. Due to this, they are more concerned with how they are coming across than the actual conversation they are in and so they are not fully present with the other person and not genuine in their communication. They are playing a part rather than being themself, which tends to make the conversation shallow and fabricated.
So the only reason you feel like people are judging you negatively is because you are judging yourself in this way! So your real fear is not about meeting or talking in front of others, it is about being exposed and judged for who you THINK you are.
What you need to realise is that people don’t see you in the way you see yourself and so you are not being judged in the way that you perceive yourself to be. So this is not just about becoming more comfortable with your anxiety and others; it is also about becoming more comfortable with yourself and, in doing so, your anxiety around others will automatically weaken.
This is not to be disrespectful, but you are of no importance to anyone you meet in a group situation. They will have forgotten all about them as soon as they walk out of the room. The truth is, they care as little about you as you do about them; you won’t give them a second thought when you get home and neither will they.
So remember, people don’t judge us as we think they do; they have their own things going on in life. They wouldn’t care or probably even notice if you or anyone else stumbled over a few words. So let go of the need to make an impression, it is likely that you won’t anyway, whatever you say or don’t say.
Most people feel some anxiety talking in front of others
In any situation, just do the best you can and don’t try to hit any kind of perfection. Just give yourself permission to make mistakes and allow yourself to feel a little anxious if need be, as it is the actual worrying about making a fool of yourself that is making you more anxious.
If we start to worry about being anxious rather than just allowing ourselves to be so, then the body senses that we are worrying and the anxiety increases. Anxiety is nothing more than an energy shift in the body; it is nothing you can’t handle. When we accept that we may feel a little anxious and allow ourselves to be so, it tends to weaken pretty quickly as we are not creating more of it.
You could even say to your boss “I am a little out of my comfort zone here, but I will try my best”. I am sure that she would be very understanding and maybe even tell you about her own concerns.
I have joined a few meet-up groups in the past and most people who come for the first time are pretty nervous and unsure, but the regular people are really understanding and welcoming as they were all in the same boat when they first arrived. Also, I have never once seen anyone judge anyone negatively for feeling a little nervous.
Fear is a sign you are moving out of your own comfort zones
My first experience with pushing my own comfort zone came at a pub quiz. I was wracked with anxiety at the time, so it was especially brave of me. Anyway, if you won the quiz, then someone on your team was nominated to read it the week after.
I had previously never put my hand up, but then one day, I had just had enough of living within the restrictive walls I had created. Something just snapped inside me and I just wanted to be bigger than my anxiety and regain my life, so I offered to read it at the next quiz.
Leading up to the night, I was pretty anxious and nearly pulled out, but I was determined to change my life at this point so carried on with my plan. When the time came, I was so anxious that I could hardly hold the microphone, but I was not backing out now. As I read the first question, I could hardly get my words out as my mouth was so dry and my heart was pounding so fast, but I just allowed it all to happen and carried on regardless.
Eventually, the feelings began to really subside and by question 14, I was fine. All my fear and anxiety had pretty much gone and I went on to read it all. Afterwards, I thought the people I was with would comment on how stuttering I was at the start, but no one said a thing; they just mentioned what a great quiz it was.
I can’t tell you how important that experience was. It taught me that we don’t come across anywhere near as bad as we think we do when anxious; that no one is taking any real notice of us and even when we are feeling anxious, we can still achieve anything.
This gave me so much more confidence when doing things in the future and yes, I could still feel anxious when doing anything new, but it really did not stop or bother me. I just always saw it as growth; a path towards a new life. In time, I found things pretty easy and something that would have been daunting before was no longer a problem.
Our anxiety weakens as we grow
How we first feel when stepping out of our comfort zones has no bearing on how comfortable we eventually feel. People falsely think that if they feel uncomfortable in a situation, then it will always be that way. It isn’t, it gets so much easier the more we do it. But it is more about getting comfortable with how you feel initially than anything else, realising that a few nerves are fine, harmless and normal.
I also remember many years ago, during my days of suffering, being on a retreat full of strangers, and they decided to go around the room asking us to tell everyone about ourselves and what brought us there. Well, this was my ultimate nightmare, but, again, I wanted to improve and grow so I just accepted my anxiety and decided to do the best I could.
When it came to my turn, I stumbled my words, rambled on and thought I had made a real fool of myself, but no one cared or said anything and everyone was perfectly fine with me afterwards. In fact, looking back, they were most likely just worrying about their turn and a few others probably stumbled too, but I also did not notice or care.
Even if anyone did judge me, who cares? What difference would a stranger’s opinion matter? And if they did judge me, it would say much more about them than me. But, honestly, it’s not important to them how some stranger performs; it has no bearing or importance on their life.
Every time I felt anxious/nervous going forward, then I knew I was stepping out of my comfort zones and growing as a person. I saw this as a good thing, not a bad thing, and this is how you should see it – a chance to grow and expand your life. Every time you fear anything or feel anxious in a new situation, it is not a sign to retreat. It is a sign to go towards it so as to grow as a person and regain your freedom.
We fear our feelings and not the situation we are in
So, you don’t hate sitting in certain places or role-playing or anything else you mention. What you truly hate is the feelings these situations create. It is never the situation you fear or hate; it is the way it makes you feel.
So, in reality, you are avoiding nothing more than a feeling, and this is why the way out is to start being OK with the feeling. Yes, knowledge can help bring a new perspective but, at some point, in order to grow and get over a lot of your fears, you are going to have to feel what you have been avoiding. Don’t let nothing more than a feeling stop you from living the life you want.
When I first overcame anxiety and started to live my life again, I fretted about joining a new art class and walking group. But when I got there, no one batted an eyelid and everyone was so welcoming, because of this my nerves soon melted away.
Now if I join any new group, it doesn’t bother me at all. I have grown so used to them. If I had not gone initially and let nerves hold me back, then I would never have enjoyed the things I have or met the people I did. I decided very early on that I would never let what is no more than an uncomfortable energy shift stop me from living the life I wanted.
The reason anything hardly bothers me at all now is that my mind no longer perceives it to be a problem. By doing these things, I have taught it that these things are of no threat, which they aren’t and never were.
This new-found confidence also helped change the negative beliefs I had about myself. The more I achieved, the more confident and comfortable in myself I began to feel and with that, my thought process began to change too.
So all this wriggling out of things didn’t help you grow. It just conditioned your mind into believing these were things to avoid, so you now need to teach your mind that these things hold no threat, which they don’t. You’re just in a room of people, a room where most people, like you, will be hoping they aren’t picked.
Don’t worry about your performance
You say this…
“Then I will analyse after all the stuff I could have done better and beat myself up about it. Part of it is because I lose concentration worrying and I don’t listen properly. Maybe that’s a way to focus…listen, take notes and ignore the voices about myself?!”
Firstly there is no need to analyse anything. You did the best you could with how you felt in the moment; be proud of yourself for that. The analysing seems to come again from a fear of being judged. We are all critical of ourselves and think we could have done better, not realising that we have never done as bad as we think we have and that, in truth, we did as well as we could.
If you already have preconceived ideas that you will mess up, then you will most likely be watching your performance instead of just being present in the moment and doing what you need to do.
One of the biggest things I learnt when overcoming my social anxiety is that when in conversation, I was always watching my performance. I was always concerned about how I was doing, how I was coming across and what the other person thought of me etc. Because of this, pretty much every conversation was a disaster as I was never present. I had 20% of my awareness on the conversation, and 80% on me.
I was never truly listening to the other person and this was the reason I never felt part of it. I was just concerned about me and how I was doing and this is why I felt so detached from the conversation and why it felt so shallow and contrived.
I now knew that to move forward, I had to learn to stop caring about how I was doing or coming across and just have a conversation. I can’t tell you the difference it made when I took on this new approach.
Conversations started to flow far better as I now felt more present and I could actually hear and take in what they were saying. I even allowed myself to mess up and stutter a bit without seeing it as wrong. I was no longer going to judge myself or worry about how I was doing, as it was exactly this that took my attention away in the first place.
People are not judging you like you think they are
So this can be the same for you when talking with new people. Don’t worry about it; just do it. It is the same if you do a presentation of any kind. If you are worried about how you are doing or what people are thinking of you, then this makes it a lot worse as you aren’t present. You are just preoccupied with yourself and this then shows in your performance because you lose so much focus.
So anything you have to do, just do it with no preconceived ideas or pressures on how it should go. Don’t be concerned about your performance and give yourself some slack. It’s perfectly fine if you make a mistake or two.
No one cares or notices anyway. By the time these people get to their car, they will have forgotten about you and anyone else in the room. They will most likely just want to get away from the boring meeting and get home!
Don’t listen or identify with the negative thoughts you have about yourself; you are not the thoughts your mind creates about you. Also, don’t identify or get involved with any negative scenarios the mind may create about how things will go or how you will mess up.
So to recap, remember;
- People aren’t judging you as you think; you are just judging yourself. If you did any kind of presentation, no one would care if you stumbled on a few words. They would understand or most likely not even notice. Would you judge or be critical of anyone who did not make a perfect presentation?
- Most people don’t enjoy speaking in front of others and aren’t very comfortable in a room full of strangers; it’s normal.
- There is no threat or danger sitting in a room full of people. It is not the situation, but the feelings you dislike and what you are trying to avoid. It is this avoidance that is stopping you from living the life you want. Just remember, anxiety is harmless. It’s just an inner shift of energy of no real significance, something you can more than handle.
- Every time you do something that makes you feel a little uncomfortable, see it as a sign of growth – a sign that you are stepping out of your comfort zones. It is not a sign to retreat, or that anything is wrong, it is a sign of you growing as a person. It is something you should embrace and be proud of.
- Allow yourself not to be perfect and to make mistakes. No one is socially perfect meeting new people or nails the perfect presentation. Most will just admire you for getting up there and doing it. No one is looking for any kind of perfection. We’re all human and all different, however you do is fine; be proud of yourself for doing the best you can.
- Learn to have a better relationship with yourself. Let go of all the masks and fake personas and look to find the real you again. In doing so, you will automatically be more comfortable around others.
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This was really helpful Paul. Was wondering do you agree with the “fake it until you make it” principle? So in these situations for example should I “pretend” to be more confident than I actually feel?
Thank you
Hi Suzanne
I am not a fan of the ‘Fake it until you make it approach’ as people can tend to feel and see your true inner vibe, there is a lack of authenticity in this approach and that can come through.
It is more about not faking anything and just allowing yourself to feel a little nervous if need be, rather than putting on some act that everything is fine.
Hey Paul,
I wanted to ask you if you could write a post about how to deal with the ‘fear of the symptoms of panic attacks’..
would be so grateful for that..!
Hi Ruby
I have written a blog post about this already and have a page on my site, so I don’t tend to repeat subjects.
The shift in attitude towards a panic attack came to me because I realised that a panic attack was just a release of anxious/fearful energy that had built up inside. This can come through long term stress or worry. In a lot of cases, it is the stress and worry of another attack that can keep people in the cycle. The thing to remember is the outside is never responsible for how you feel; it is not the cause of any energy release. The outside just triggers what is inside. This is why people can have them for no real reason, in any situation, as it has nothing to do with the outside and all to do with what has built up inside. This is why it is pointless and counterproductive to avoid anything; in fact, you should welcome it being triggered as then you get to release it.
So firstly let’s call them energy releases as that is all they are, when this anxious/fearful energy hits a threshold then your body can no longer store this energy and so it brings it up to be released. So your body is doing you a huge favour here, it is exactly what you need if you want to be free of it. It is not something to suppress, run away from or fear. It is just your body releasing this energy for your benefit. Just like a volcano has to release all its energy when the build-up is too much, the mountain just allows this release, and eventually, the mountain goes back to calm.
So it is allowing this energy that frees you of it, it is uncomfortable, I won’t say it is not, but it is utterly harmless and the more you understand it, the less you fear it. You realise the process is a good one and one that is needed if you wish to be free of this energy. You may have to go through a few of these releases but in time if you don’t keep building up this energy through more stress and worry, then it will empty out.
The only reason I don’t go through these energy releases anymore is there is nothing left in me to release, so there is nothing to trigger.
I have a post on here and on my site that explains more.
https://anxietynomore.co.uk/panic_attacks/
https://anxietynomore.co.uk/blog/2017/08/01/how-to-be-free-of-fear/
Paul
Thank you so much dear Paul, I am so grateful for your help and what you do for us..!
Paul I wanted to ask you :
How you knew that the *Energy* *attack* wasnt dangerous? Because it feels so consuming and horrible.. all this symptoms.. thats why I struggle to belive that it is not harmful..
When the heart beats with 160 bpm it really feels like it is going to stop or I will get an heart attack.
So how do I convince myself that it is not harmful when in reality it feels like Im going to die/ collaps and so on.. Thats were I struggle the most, because a healthy Body wouldnt get such heart beats and this Overall anxiety.. and because it all is so *not normal* .. I automatically believe that there is something wrong with my Body, that I somehow damaged or broken or sick..
Would be glad if you could answer me Paul!
For Ruby
Oh yes, a healthy heart/body WOULD get 160 bpm in response to something, like after a strong exercising or the moment it would face a real reason to fear, like the sudden appearence of a lion in front of him… all these situations would definitely make a healthy heart get 160 bpm…
Now the only difference between a healthy heart and an anxious heart, is that the second one has the ‘lion’ in front of it most of the time (this ‘lion’ is the anxiety, all irrational thoughts and fears), so the heart rate doesn’t reach a low level that easily, because the adrenaline is pumped almost continuously by the ‘fight or flight mode’, while a healthy nonanxious heart would easily lower it’s rate, the moment the exercise is over or the lion dissapears.
Paul,
I love the fact that you’re replying and helping people personally. Start charging for it .. hehe. Sometimes I wish I came across that nice lady who helped you understand what you were going through, that I would have that ‘A-Ha! moment too.
anyway paul, I know I’m creating my own symptoms, I know my adrenaline gets pumped at the slightest of things. I should allow this to happen but I also know that further fear is creating more symptoms. The fear is what I haven’t accepted. Does repeated doing let go of the fear? how does one get that inner voice that it’s JUST anxiety /OCD and nothing more? Can you also talk a bit about obsessions? Are you giving them the same name as intrusive thoughts? At this point, I’m finding it hard to rationalise with the intrusive/ obsessive thoughts that come. Yesterday, was not so great because while I’m dealing with just managing life, suddenly my the thought that religion won’t help and other things related to it came into my mind. It’s like one thing after another to scare me and pull me down because I’m relying a lot on faith and God to help me pass this. I’m continuing with prayers and meditation even if I feel like it’s not helping. Eventually, I’m hoping the real me will come back. Is that acceptance? Although I’m repeating that the fear is still there while I’m doing tasks which creates more anxiety.
Hello
I’m currently struggling to read books as I’m so mentally tired and brain fogged that I’m not taking anything in so I was wondering if someone could give me some advice please to see if it can help something sink in.
I’ve been struggling with anxiety for 2 years. Last year it was really difficult as I was in such a bad state of panic every day, all day, for about 9 months. I struggled to do house chores, do basic things with my children, cooking etc as I was so drained from so much anxiety. This led to feelings of guilt and depression. By spring this year I felt so much better after a very bad year. I started to go out again, doing all the house chores. After some stressful events this summer, one being a death in the family, the anxiety and depression hit me hard again.
I have constant physical symptoms, the room I’m in well feel fuzzy and distant, I cant take in books or even tv at times, constant woozy sensitive eyes to light, extreme fatigue, some days I struggle to clean and cook like last year, I cant leave my house or socialise. You get the idea. Last year the severity was a 10/10, I was bed bound for a lot of the year I was in such a terrible dark place. Now I’m at about a 7/10 but it’s still quite debilitating again.
I can’t even remeneve how I got to a better place and I’m struggling to understand acceptance again. I find it too difficult when I feel so drained and dizzy when I walk around, constant symptoms even when I’m resting. Alot of my symptoms are in my eyes and ears, I get rushes in my eyes and head and extreme sensitivity to light and sound. I’ve become so jumpy. I know this is extreme sensitisation causing my symptoms but I’m still not grasping how to accept this. I beat myself up all day with guilt, feel I’m a bad wife and mum, I’ve been struggling for 2 years so it concerns me with all the things I avoid that I must be the worst case and cant recover. I’ve never read of anyone unable to leave their home, not able to have visitors or find even trivial things at home difficult at times.
Any advice will be so appreciated.
Thank you
Lib
@Roxana
Thank you for your message..
Its just. I can let the fear come and wash over me. But as it fades after 30-45min and I see that nothing bad happened – It doesnt change the fact that I fear the next attack coming.
So how do I lose the fear of the next one coming..?
Hi Paul i am at the tail end of this anxiety process however I still struggle with anxiety about my teenage sons. If anything happens to them I go into full anxiety mode and think the worse each time. I am concerned this will in turn make them anxious which is something I don’t want to pass on if I can help it. My eldest doesn’t seem to have any close friends and has admitted he feels sad and I can tell he s lonely. Straight away I go into what this means for him For The Rest if His Life lol I know it’s irrational but I cannot stop the thoughts, I then blame myself I ve not done this and that. It is exhausting and I know nothing I can do but love and support him . Do u have any advice on how to lessen these irrational fears I tell myself it will pass to not listen etc but because it is someone I love I find it hard to follow. Thank u
Hi,
I wasn’t sure whether to post on this post or the last one. I have been reading some of the responses from Paul and Stephanie and they have been really helpful. I sometimes find reading all this stuff a bit overwhelming as there are so many replies, but they were really helpful. Something Stephanie said about how acceptance doesn’t change anything really hit me as I find I think acceptance will just change things and that is why I constantly think I am ‘doing it wrong’. I haven’t been ‘hit’ with something like that for over a year so I am grateful.
However, I am still stuck in the same sort of situations, I think I may need further understanding (or re-understanding.) I found it helped me to be more ok in some social settings, I just accept that I am going through a difficult time and this is how things are right now, and somehow accepting it makes me feel a whole lot better and more present. But I’m still not there and I know it.
Also I have a specific issue with my exams, which I have mentioned before, I have been struggling to be successful and I have another resit in 2 weeks and yet I am procrastinating and avoiding studying because it makes me anxious and I am terrified of failing which ends up making it happen of course. I also get really anxious in the exams as it is a face to face, practical exam. I told myself I would start today but I find myself binging a TV show to distract myself from the horrible feelings. I know this is the issue.
Maybe I am hoping that personal advice will help me, but I will go back to read over some of the replies from the last thread because it was really good. I’m just so emotionally exhausted.
If stephanie or paul could answer or someone who gets it etc, I would really appreciate your help.
Star I rarely get time to answer on here and I am pushed for time now so this is just a short point on something you said
However, I am still stuck in the same sort of situations, I think I may need further understanding (or re-understanding.) I found it helped me to be more ok in some social settings, I just accept that I am going through a difficult time and this is how things are right now, and somehow accepting it makes me feel a whole lot better and more present. But I’m still not there and I know it.
The reason you felt more present is that through accepting you’re are not giving it as much focus, you’re not constantly monitoring yourself or trying to fix anything and so the attention you previously gave it, has to go somewhere else and that is to the outside, hence you feel more present. Also when you stop struggling with it, you feel better as it is the struggling with it that causes the majority of your suffering as in reality you are just struggling with yourself. Struggle and focus only increases suffering, it does not diminish it.
I will do my next blog post on surrender, hopefully that will help
A lot of the comments are still based on ‘how do I stop’ and ‘how do I lessen’ which is the opposite of acceptance.
We can go through periods where we feel much better and then when it comes back people try and get rid of it again. Setbacks happen. I am of the impression I will get these feelings all my life now and then and it’s fine. I felt awful for years every day until I found this site. It took a while for me to understand acceptance. Once I did I have improved hugely. Sometimes it feels slow and out of nowhere, I have had a recent setback. It’s hasn’t had any impact on me doing a thing. I’ve felt awful but I’ve gone on holidays with in-laws, presented to a 100 people at work and gone on nights out despite my body and mind saying don’t do any of these things.
I’m slowly coming out of this tough Setback but it doesn’t matter if I wake up tomorrow and I’m back in it. It’s not great and I don’t enjoy them but there’s nothing we can do.
As soon as that becomes second nature it’s even easier.
The brain might sometimes ask questions when we are in the midst of a setback like ‘is this right’ ‘could be something you’ve done’. Key is to accept and let them be there without investigating.
Doesn’t matter how long you’ve had this anxiety, or whether you improve slowed or have more setbacks or even longer setbacks. Recovery is exactly the same. Never, ever try or do anything to get rid of how you feel. That is key.
Sorry for waffling!
Insightful post, John!
@Paul: I have a question and would love to hear your input/opinion.
It is regarding all these labels and diagnosis for “anxiety disorders”. We all have probably google it and know the classic forms as recognized by the WHO.
I just feel like these labels are not helpful at all – especially not for the person being diagnosed.
It just puts a stamp on a person, having now a “mental illness” – and of course, we have all read articles and whatnot that say that anxiety disorders are chronic and hard to cure etc etc
Stuff that scares me personally a lot.
I myself wouldn’t even know what category I fall into. I have had an official diagnosis of moderate depression at some point (although…who knows..) but anxiety has always been my worst/most feared symptom.
(I now know – through your books and site mostly – that my mood/sadness is mostly due to me feeling mentally exhausted)
I don’t have classic panic attacks but can get into a state of extreme despair and fear where I feel I won’t ever be “normal” again.
I have a lot of the physical anxiety symptoms, of course. But I don’t worry excessively about all kinds of things (like classic Generalized Anxiety Disorder is defined).
I basically just worry about myself and the way I am feeling. and my big fear is staying like this and that I won’t be able to enjoy life again.
I really do not want a formal diagnosis and to me, I know I have anxiety now – and had times before where it was an issue. I never really got to the bottom of it.
I just think that these terms do not help at all and was wondering, how you (and people who understand anxiety) view this?
Should we best just forget specific labels for our “diseases” and accept that yes, we feel anxiety, yes, evryone has different triggers, symptoms and manifestations, underlying fears – but in the end, it is “just” anxiety and that the brain can reverse it?
It makes me kind of mad that so many health professionals know nothing about it all.
Curious to hear you (and everyone else’s) opinion!
Hi Nela,
I expect Paul will give a more insightful response but I will throw mine in any way :).
I have often found it frustrating when professionals don’t seem to really understand anxiety all that well. I do feel like things are improving however as time goes by and more and more people are being open about it. I am at the stage now however where i accept that we are where we are and I dont really think about it.
I personally dont really look at anxiety as a mental illness
The fear of never feeling normal again is pretty common. Don’t investigate those thoughts just allow them to be there as its just another way for the anxiety to manifest itself.
Everyone can have different symptoms, thoughts etc and a lot of the time you might get thoughts saying ‘This feeling is different and not normal’ but that’s just the anxiety talking.
Hi Paul.
Just wanted to show my enormous gratitude for showing me the right and only way to be liberated from this condition.a condition of our own making.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your kind words Issac and my pleasure
Paul
Hi Paul,
Your approach makes complete sense to me yet I still struggle with a couple of elements: –
I manage physical anxiety pretty well now and don’t have an issue with it, letting it be when it comes and goes but mentally is where I still struggle in particular: –
If this is actually depression this approach won’t work, it’s not meant for me. I can’t figure out if I suffer from depression or it’s anxiety, it’s a strange one (as a result I think I fear depression and see it harder to overcome). I’m not down about myself per se, I have a beautiful family, job, work hard, have positive attributes, etc… but cycle where I’ll have a good day or two and then feel a bit down, start inspecting closely how I feel, inevitably start researching and ultimate self fulfil the prophecy.
I find it hard when I’m feeling down/flat for a day or two to just accept, move on with my day. I feel I must solve it with research, etc… how did you accept the approach would work without doubts entering your mind? I feel the good days as much as I appreciate them actually fuel my problems with the bad days as I’m wondering why I’ve dipped/gone flat, what’s caused it.
I’ve had this for some time now and had long spells with it (4 years during one time). I’m just wondering if you or anyone can associate with this and give me your view on where I’m going wrong with the approach.
Cheers
Hi,
This is time sensitive so I hope someone can answer.
I have an exam in 2 days and this is a HUGE trigger of mine. I am terrified of failure and struggling with my self esteem after having struggled with anxiety for all these years.
So I think I made a big leap forward when I realised that I am scared of ‘losing it” and that ‘people will notice something is wrong with me’ and this is a huge factor in my social anxiety, so I found that by being able to really face that and to say – if ppl notice they notice, I have noticed I am less afraid to speak to ppl.
I have decided it makes sense to use this approach to my exams, I need to face the failure, be ok with it and stop being scared of it and then I can actually study and actually be present and have a shot in the exam (it’s a practical). I’m not sure if this is all making sense but I find sometimes I get confused if I am on the right way or if its completely wrong. Because I know it’s all based on the horrible feeling but to me I feel like I’m afraid of things e.g failure….?
it’s all anxiety star . Go for the exam and even if you fail ( which i hope you don’t ) , the failure won’t mean much because you would have faced something you fear . You’re overscrutinising and you just need to focus on the exam despite all these thoughts – they are just thought after all.
Dear Paul, dear ex sufferer,
I write to you because I really am in a bad place right now.
I don’t know what to do anymore, no matter what I feel is like uncomfortable in my body.. for example, dizziness, nausea, sweaty palms, fast heartbeat. I automatically conclude that Im about to die and then Im in this, fear bubble“ I don’t know how to describe it. it’s like I can’t move or breathe or think normally when I’m in this bubble, I don’t concentrate anymore on anything just on what is about to happen with me.
For example, today we went out to a restaurant with our friends, we ate, drunk a bit wine and then went to a store and afterwards to a coffee and when we drove back home, I felt again that my heart is racing and „whoops“ I am in this „freeze bubble“ and I just think about: This must be something bad, a heart attack maybe, maybe it won’t stop beating and I will faint and so on.. And in the bottom of my heart I know it’s anxiety but When I get this fear/dread I can not think logically anymore, I just think that I’ll die and that’s it.
Then I find myself so weird compared to the others who don’t seem to give a damn and I get so extremely upset for feeling this way and being so alien and strange. 😞
I then came home with my sister and checked my pulse: it was 130 bpm and my sister got annoyed and told me to give her the pulse machine and she checked her pulse and it was also 130 bpm and she said: see??? I have also 130!!! And?? Am I dying? No!!! whats wrong with you, why are you behaving like that. And I really felt so bad about myself, because I even cannot describe why I am fearing that I might die, it’s like so automatic and I don’t know how to not fear… 😭 I wished I just could be normal again but this panic is following me everywhere…. and I don’t know what to do. 😓
Would be so grateful for your advice and help anyone.. thank you!
So you have these thoughts and you are trying to explain them and investigate them?
They are just thoughts and you are giving then too much power.
I just had a thought out of nowhere saying ‘don’t respond you’ll start up your own anxiety again’. Completely out of nowhere. But it’s fine. I thought it, didn’t try to stop thinking it or question it, I just thought it.
The mind does what it wants so I can’t control it. I can control if I post on here though! 🙂
Having the thought you might be dying (or whatever) is fine. Trying to look into and investigate or get your sister to help is giving the thought more energy and power. You are ‘fighting’.
It’s difficult to see sometimes and don’t beat yourself up if you can’t see it at the moment
It’s not just the thoughts though, it’s also this state Im automatically in – like anxiety is ‘freezing’ me and I can’t do anything, my heart is just racing as hell and I think that I’m dying. Just when I calm down after 40 min till 1 hour, just the I can again move normally and think clear.
And I don’t really know what I can do different – to not fight? It seems like its even not possible, as soon as I’m in this state – where I’m feeling like I will die any other minute, it feels as if I’m really dying and I can’t change these thought patterns and symptoms which come with it, like a bpm of 130-160, sweaty palms and feet, dizziness, nausea and hot flashes.. its really so overwhelming!!!
Your heart might feel like its racing. You cant stop it mentally. You literally can’t do anything. You have to feel it all. It’s not something you need to enjoy or like feeling. It’s not pleasant but it’s just feeling it. You are still, by the sounds of things, trying to change the way you feel and think.
Hey Ruby. It’s like going out to a restaurant for dinner with my partner. My mind would say don’t go, feel dread straight away when it’s suggested. I would feel the dread and anxiety and plan it for later. Then still go and feel awful. However, it’s fine. I might feel pretty shit, and like my minds on me thinking about how shit I would feel but I let it and I still interact and for a few minutes you forget etc. Then you feel shit again, then you allow it and you might feel shit for most of the meal but you can talk a and interact etc.
The fact you are still asking how to stop a feeling and/or thoughts means you aren’t accepting. I have had sweaty palms in situations and groggy, dizzy feelings but they are there and I never try to stop or get rid of anything.
This isn’t me having a go, believe me, I have been where you are. But coming on here and asking how to change your thought pattern means you are still doing something (not accepting).
I hope this starts to make sense 🙂
Apologies for the poor formatting and grammar errors, i responded a bit quick!
Hi John,
thank you so much for your great help and advice.
I really am trying to put it into practice and don’t react and let it all happen. But I really struggle with my fast heartbeat and sweaty Palms, feet and so on.. it freaks me out.
It feels so dangerous when I get this (the worst is the fast heartbeat and this Feeling that Im About to die..:( ), like Im really about to have a heart attack!! And my fear is then so strong that I can’t shake it off.
Why won’t it stop? I really am letting it be, but it comes again and again and again.
Ruby you arent allowing of it at all, you state things like ‘It freaks me out’, ‘why won’t it stop?’, ‘I can’t shake it off’, ‘I feel I am about to die’. There is a huge standpoint of fear within you, which is creating the cycle you are stuck in. The fear of the racing heart and the focus due to your constant concern about it, keeps the heart beating fast and creates the sweaty palms.
It is like saying ‘I am allowing my anxiety as I have have been in fear of it and stressing about it all day long’ that is not allowing at all, that is fearing it and wanting it to go away.
The statement ‘I am allowing it to be but it won’t go away’ firstly your whole post says you are doing the opposite of allowing it to be and secondly it looks like you are using allowing to try and make it stop as some kind of technique, otherwise if you were truly allowing you wouldn’t complain about it still beating.
Your whole focus is not coming from a place of allowing the heart to beat fast if it wishes or the sweaty palms to be there, it is coming from a place of wanting it all gone, from a place of fear and non-acceptance. You need to see the cycle you are in to be able to cease the fear cycle you are stuck in, then the loop can be broken and given time, the symptoms will begin to weaken as you are no longer constantly recreating them.
You have to see how you are creating your own cycle, no one outside of you can do this for you, they can only point you to what is causing your suffering. No outside is doing this to you, it is through a place of misunderstanding you are keeping yourself in a cycle.
Hey Paul,
I understand that Im creating it by myself, but I don’t understand how to step out of this cycle and believe in my body. Because every time I feel something strange, this loop plays on repeat and I can not NOT react???
I just don’t understand how to not worry about this condition.
There’s not really a how. That implies you are trying do something.
You don’t need to think clearly and have clarity. You can think anything naturally.
I know you are probably getting frustrated as you are trying hard to understand. Trying to understand is still doing something.
You need to stop doing anything and feel awful. Feel sweaty. Feel like your hearts racing. It doesn’t feel great you still feel awful but it takes no effort at all because your aren’t doing anything:)
You step out of it by no longer trying to step out of it Ruby.
All the posts on here are pointers for you to see this rather than keep looking for a way to ‘Step out of it’ I have just told you how to break the cycle yet it seems you want another technique to stop it, get rid of it. When you finally see that you can’t, then you will have got the point of what I and others are trying to convey here.
You stop worrying when you see the cycle clearly when you see the truth behind how you feel. A beating heart is not going to lead to a heart attack, the worry of it leading to a heart attack is the fear that is keeping you in the cycle. Allow yourself to have a heart attack if need be, fully surrender to that happening also and you may find the letting go I am talking about.
Hey Guys,
Thank you so much for helping me, it means a lot to me that you John and Paul are replying and giving me the direction I should go.
So today I again tried to let it all consume me and I failed. 😔
We went out with my sister to buy some stuff and again I felt this sweatiness, felt somehow so light-headed and „not really there“ .. I remembered your words and just went further for the shopping, but I couldn’t get out of my head anymore and its worst-case scenarios. 😩
So I somehow managed to finish the shopping with her and we went back home and all the time I felt so weird and I let it be there but it was again awful… it again felt so strong like Im about to collapse and so on…
I then just told my sister I am tired and lied in this awful state and after like 2 hours I calmed somehow down. My sister watched movies and so on, guys I really tried to relax and don’t react so much, but these symptoms are really just so much awful that as soon as Im getting this all sensations and feelings and so on, I just cannot relax myself anymore!!
It just paralyzes me.
I really know that it’s not right to react like this and that I won’t recover if I don’t stop to react like this. but really it comes just so automatic and I really can’t do different then, I definitely try and tell myself its just anxiety and so on, it won’t kill you, you had this 1000x and this time is no different BUT the other part with the: what-ifs, worst-case scenarios are so much more convincing in this moment with the symptoms..
and that’s the hardest part, to believe that Im good even when I feel awful?
John and Paul it would be great to hear again from you both.. thank you so much. I have no one to talk about this with, and writing out what Im going through and having people that had the same telling me that they found there way out of this, is giving me so much hope.
Hi Ruby,
The real issue is you want the symptoms to leave. You don’t want to accept them. You don’t want to live with them. And thus you think acceptance isn’t “working” and you’re “failing.” But there is nothing you can do to make the symptoms leave. The more you panic and struggle, the more you suffer.
You thought that when you were out shopping that if you “accepted” how you felt that you would start feeling normal. When that didn’t happen, you added more fear into the equation and inevitably got discouraged that nothing was working to make you feel good.
By the same token, you think that accepting means you’ll lose your fear of the symptoms. That when your heart starts racing, when the sweating and lightheadedness come, that you’ll simply greet them with a smile and not be bothered at all. So, instead, when the symptoms come and the fear follows almost immediately behind, you despair and think you’ll never escape this nightmare. But, again, you cannot change how you feel. The symptoms are there, and you are scared of them. So be it. You can still live your life.
When you were shopping and the symptoms came, you simply keep shopping. You accept every wave of fear, even your fear that you will collapse or die. You let yourself feel absolutely horrible. You don’t spend the time counting down every minute until you can escape. You engage in what’s happening, all while the symptoms and fear are raging inside you. If you find yourself thinking, “Oh no, it’s getting worse, I can’t take another second!” you still stay. There’s nothing you can do to make the feelings leave. Escaping won’t help, because it’s not being out shopping that’s the problem. It’s always only and ever your resistance and struggle against how you feel that is the problem.
The goal isn’t to be able to live life without ever feeling anxious. The goal is to live your life feeling however you feel.
Dear Stephanie,
thank you so much for your message of advice.
The thing is, I really am doing anything no matter how I feel, but the fear wont stop, and when I feel this overwhelming fear, I just have an overall feeling that something is not right with me, because I feel this way.
I know that Im far from accepting, I just dont really know how to accept being like this all the time, and feeling every second that Im about to die, its really hard..
It’s great you are doing everything still. The problem is you are still trying to stop how you feel.
It’s not hard to accept. As you stop doing anything.
You will still feel awful and like you ‘might die’ but you aren’t trying to stop it.
Hey John,
Yea I dont know if Im trying to stop how I feel, I know I cant.. I just dont like the way Im feeling? But I cant change it..
You don’t need to like it. Thats trying to like it. Whenever you have an injury or get ill you dont like it. But you accept it and eventually, it heals. 🙂
Dear John.. thats true, but when Im ill Im like knowing where it comes from or why Im ill, but when I feel this overwhelming anxiety or the fast heart beat which comes like out of nowhere, I am freaking out because Im not so sure if its something not dangerous. 🙁
Its so hard for me to just let it be when I get this, because I always feel a huge urge to do something about it.. its reaally hard.
But it takes more effort to freak out. You are freaking out because your attitude is that you want it to stop and go.
It’s not an attitude of wanting it to stay it’s an attitude that doesn’t matter if it’s there or not.
It will click but I can’t magically make you accept. Coming on here posting and complaining is not accepting though. Please don’t take that as a dig. 🙂
Hello everyone!
I am curious to know if anyone had experienced itching as a symptom of anxiety. The itching is not localized, I experience it all over my body throughout most of the day, and I have no rashes at all. I had a blood test done to rule out more serious issues, and the results were good. These past few months were very stressful for me, and my anxiety skyrocketed. I started having this symptom about a month ago. It might be due to some allergy, but I haven’t yet found out what could be causing it, that is why I am curious about the possibility of anxiety itself being the cause.
Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Tom! I had that when my anxiety was high. Again, anxiety makes you question everything.
I itched and ruminated and then made it worse.
Accept you are itchy. Be itchy. Don’t question it. It’s fine to naturally think you are itchy but just don’t try and stop it or investigate it.
It will soon fade.
Thank you for your reply John!
Indeed it’s causing me to ruminate a lot and it makes my mind more tired, since I am sick of trying to figure out what element of my diet is possibly causing it, and going from doctor to doctor with no explanation. Its good to know that anxiety can also cause this symptom.
Yea John I know complaining isnt accepting, and wont get me further..
Its just I can let it be but I cant stop the worry – and I know and understand that that’s where i go wrong.
Im working on it, to not react that much but idk 😐 not see that much progress. Anxiety really is hell.
Paul, in your How to Recover section, you say the following: “We are all built the same way, and we all heal the same, as long as we know what we need to do to heal then recovery is there for everyone.”
What about those of us who worry that it really could be a psychological thing, resultant from changes to our brain? Do you think even in these case we can still stop creating the anxiety and release what is in our bodies?
Thanks for everything you’ve done here by the way, you’ve completely changed the way I think about anxiety.
Hi,
So I still feel like i need a bit more support. I have been surrounded by all the helpful info for coming up to 4 years now but somehow my progress is limited. It upsets me a little because I thought I was smart lol.
I am still just miserable and my goal of every waking moment seems to be to figure it out and make it go away because it seems to be the cause of ruining my life. I am so exhausted.
I know that I need to stop trying to make it go away but somehow I really struggle with that.
Star you are still to realise you are doing this to yourself, all your attempts to fix, solve and escape how you feel is the very reason for the way you feel.
Read this article I wrote on mental exhaustion
https://anxietynomore.co.uk/anxiety-mental-exhaustion/
You can take advice from those who have been through it or ignore it and keep doing it your way but it is quite obvious your way is not working. You just have to see for yourself why it is not working and how you are creating your own loop of suffering.
Dear Paul,
hope you can reply to my post!
The last week was more or less positive for me because I managed to not have a panic attack .. TILL TODAY..
Again I was lying in my bed and watching a movie ( at 7 pm) as I again felt that my heart started to beat fast .. all the last time I could calm myself and tell to myself that its just anxiety and it went .. This time I also tried again to do it but I couldnt I calm myself and freaked out.. 😫
My heart started to beat fast and I left the room.. Paul I really dont know what to do because when I get this feeling of fear I really feel like Im dying.. I don’t understand how to not react to this…
What should I do?
Again you are trying to do something, the answer is to do nothing, stop trying to do.
Allow the anxious energy to come up and release itself, your body is trying to free it up, it is doing you a favour, stop resisting a release
There is no answer that will stop it, go to my site and read the link on panic attacks for more info
Hey Paul,
I am not sure if I do something about this.
I know that I can’t.
It’s just I am definitely scared of it (and it’s symptoms). That’s the reason why Im acting like this when I feel it (the attack) coming.
And even if I had this already 2000 times, every time It feels like this time it will kill me.
When my heart starts beating this fast.. like out of nowhere. I really feel that something bad is about to happen. I then can’t stop this anymore.
I tried to let it come“ but as soon it is coming“ I am just scared. 😞
Thanks, Paul for answering…
I know this is true but when I try to implement it I always feel I am doing it wrong and I have so many discouraging thoughts and hopeless thoughts which throw me into despair. I have been able to ‘do it’ in the past so I have a point of reference, and I remember that I realised how I didn’t have to do anything and I remember the relief I felt. But somehow it just haunts me now and makes me wonder if it was even real or right when it lasted.
I really want to change but I feel like I just keep going in circles. I’m very desperate.
Hi Paul,
I’m wondering if ‘releasing energy’ is just a metaphor. I can’t place this because my intuition says that accepting the symptoms is more like habituation that will lead to decreasing of symptoms.
It started for me with anxiety about my back and later on my chest(heart). I’m not sure how but at a point I automatically didn’t care about it anymore and now I’m not scared of this issue anymore. Since I experienced (study) stress my anxiety is increased a lot. It’s mainly about harm and it’s additional fears like depression. When I’m in a good mood I experience happiness and enthusiasm, but when I’m in low mood it is negativity and heavy anxiety/intrusives. I’m now at a point where I can more or less say ‘well, it’s the anxiety’ when I feel symptoms, but I’m not experience the feelings as positive, because they are so tough!!
Any advice?
Hey Paul,
I am struggling with a new problem.. At one day during my panic attack I felt kinda sweaty/ had hot flashes and so on.. so I measured my bp.. it was 160/85 .. I was very..scared because my normal bp is 110/60 ..Now after this.. I feel everyday this hot flushes in my face. am getting sweaty pams/feet and my bp rises…
Im worried that I damaged my health somehow because the bp gots very high now and I dont know what to..
Would be very grateful for your advice.
HI Paul and everyone here
Following my recovery years ago I seem to have slipped into the rabbit hole again and have lost my way.
A question: Concerning specific thoughts that cause anxiety (not the constant head chatter) – do I just let these thoughts come and go on their own accord, let them be, let the feelings be, relax towards them, carry on with life as normal or ……… do I ‘make’ the thoughts come up to experience the anxiety, wait on the feeling to build, sit it through until it abates which needs doing time after time.
My thought is the second way just provokes this, adding fuel to the fire, and that the first way is correct ie just leave them be and carry on despite how I feel (which is what I’ve been doing).
Thanks – and sorry for the stupid question but my head is confusing me.
No worries – was able to sort my way through this again and am once more back up on top after figuring it out – I just stopped trying. Recovery is going well, am nearly there as the layers are peeling off – I just momentarily got sucked back into confusion. ❤️🥴
Hi everyone, looking for some input and advise.. I went through a bout with anxiety and intrusive thoughts years ago and this blog and website helped a lot but I’m back here again and really hoping for some help.
I got promoted to a foreman for my company about 8 months ago and although it was stressful to begin with the last month- month and a half my anxiety has been uncontrollable and I’m struggling with my job. It happens every morning before work and lasts for the beginning part of the day and I can’t focus and just want to back down. I feel like I’m so overwhelmed and don’t feel like I’m doing a good enough job and also that I don’t know enough yet as I’m still pretty young and relatively new to my field. My anxiety is starting to effect my day to day and like I said especially in the beginning of each day. My gut tells me to back down to my previous role but I feel like I should try and stick it out a bit longer to see if it gets easier. Idk if it’s worth the mental stress though. Anyone deal with this or have any insight?
Hi Nolan, Paul, ex-sufferers,
I don’t typically post on here but I’m going through a difficult patch at the moment. I presume this is a setback as I was having many good days the past couple months and I remember thinking a week ago it felt like a miracle as I had moments of completely forgetting about anxiety and it just seemed truly incredible, like I was finally making my way out of this. My sleep issues were nearly gone aside from minor things like waking up throughout the night – which honestly didn’t bother me too much as I always fell back asleep. The last week has been more challenging and just last night I had a very rough night – as I was so focused on wanting to sleep, every time I started to drift off I found myself awake again. This was the first time this has happened in many many months. I addressed Nolan in particular as I find his posts helpful and know he has struggled with anxiety induced insomnia in the past. But I appreciate any advice on how to handle these very intense moments of dread which result from the inability to let go into sleep. Like I said I’m sure this is a setback but it’s tough to see it as such in the moment so I’m trying not to fall for the anxiety trick of my good days simply being a “fluke” and latching onto the idea of needing medication (which up until now I have not taken any meds). But in my weaker moments my mind tends to go there and think “you must need medicine after all.” I’m aware this is me searching for a magic fix and maybe even this post is just seeking that same magic reassurance.
I need help.
I feel like I am at the end of my rope but somehow it is not leading me to surrender but rather to hopeless despair, frustration and depression.
I am trying to drill acceptance in my brain but it is like my brain is wired to suffering and maybe this is how it is; I am to be stuck like this in a limbo place not living life but life passing me by.
I have read this blog, the books the responses.
Star, to me it looks quite obvious that you are looking to use acceptance/allowing as a technique to feel better and why you are drilling it into your brain, you want it to work, to get rid of how you feel, this is the exact opposite of acceptance/allowing.
It is about allowing your suffering, not trying to find something in the book, blog or responses to get rid of it, that is your mistake and one many people make. You need to truly understand what it is to allow/surrender. It means to fall into your suffering, to allow it fully without trying to change it, without trying to protect yourself from it, without trying to suppress it or hold distance from it. Your words say you are doing the exact opposite and are at war with it, trying to find some way to defeat it. True surrender and allowing is the end of all techniques, the end of constantly trying to change or suppress how you feel.
Hi Nolan/Paul, I am very much at the beginning of my recovery, acceptance can prove to be tough – at times I get clarity but once a rough time hits again, it is almost like my brain forgets the good hour I had – and I am “stuck like this forever”. It is a hard time for anyone suffering with anxiety or depression but I am looking for tips given the virus situation (I am based in Ireland) – how do you go about your day as normal when times are far from normal I guess. It is proving very difficult. Thanks in advance, Gemma.
Thank you.
Ironically, writing that message was a low point for me and made me reach a new point of exhaustion, as I hate writing on here because it seems to equate in my head with failure and my own stupidity. So it reminded me of the whole point which you described which is basically not fighting because its too exhausting and choosing not to fight.
Its just that I’ve been down this road for so long and my mind is good at convincing me there is no hope for me. Because after I ‘get it’ I lose it and it’s in such an awful place to be when I am in that place of searching. But I suppose I need to remember that this isnt happening to me. I am making a choice and so I dont need to be scared because that part is in my control.
It’s just really hard for me.
Paul I have one question…some people are saying that dp/dr is caused by childhood trauma and some are saying that it is a by product of anxiety…what is your thought on that
Anish there are many causes of Depersonalisation/Derealisation, there is no singular cause, this site just covers it from an anxiety perspective
For more information follow this link
https://anxietynomore.co.uk/depersonalisation_and_derealisation/
Thanks paul for the reply. In my case after suffer from anxiety for almost 12 years and then dp/dr started. Can I contact you by mail?
Hi Paul, I am just doing the acceptance approach other than that nothing I am doing like medicines therapy etc..and right now I am having lit of setbacks. What’s your thought on this? I have had anxiety for the last 20 years and dp/dr for the last 5 years….